Friday, November 18, 2011

[MAL exploration] Let's find the difference between these two sentences.

*From Madoka Magica board

["I think that this is the best show I ever saw" is fine.

"This is the best show ever" is retarded.]

 *By Mr. Retard
...

...eh?...



...

I laughed so hard.

19 comments:

  1. There are subtle yet important differences. Though they both sound the same, the first sentence is a personal statement, and it indicates that there are possibly more shows out there that could be greater, but he has not seen any yet. It is only including the shows he watched.

    The second statement is not personal. The person doesn't say it as his opinion ("I") which makes it sound more like a fact. Since he says "ever" it makes the statement include every single show out there, even shows that the person has not seen.

    The difference then is opinion and fact. The first sentence sounds like an opinion, while the second sentence sounds like fact and that makes it sound like everyone should agree with the second sentence.

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  2. Goddamn it anon. You beat me to explanation. Which you could've explained in 1 sentence.

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  3. @Anon: First anon. I don't think there is any important difference. It's also person's opinion when treating certain animation is the best thing in the world. Why should we distinguish them? They are both - opinions.

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  4. But the second statement is making it look like that it's a fact. The first statement is saying that for him, madoka magica is the best show for him as of now, basically, the second statement is saying that the fact is PMMM is the best show ever (when it's not), while the first statement is him voicing his opinion that PMMM is the best show ever (for him).

    ...get it? no? ...okay.

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  5. @Last Anon: I'm not an idiot, like person who posted that thing. I do understand what you are saying, but what I'm saying is that there is really no need to distinguish every single fuckin sentence to figure out whether person is talking about 'facts' and 'opinion'.

    Let's say this, I wrote a single post, "Madoka Magica is best thing ever". Now, you will have to distinguish whether this is my opinion or forcing my opinion into facts. According to your reasoning, I'm forcing my opinion in to facts. However, myself is clearly, not doing that. Putting 'I think' every time posting opinion is simply, dumb.

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  6. @Also, there is a flaw in your 'nuance' reasoning. The thing you are calling, 'opinion' is nothing more than 'fact in person's own world'. When you are calling 'fact', it is person's opinion in his own world. I don't even think need for distinguish those things. They are just the way people think.

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  7. Conclusion: thoughts will never become a fact. Even if everyone in the world but you thought something was better than something, it'd still be their opinion. The difference in saying something is the best is that it makes you look like a conceited narcissist.

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  8. @Anon: Wow. I can't believe you brought 'narcissist' argument here. That makes absolutely no sense.

    Of course thoughts never become facts, but it is still 'fact' in person's own perception. Fans are like religion - they will think the thing they like is the best, and want others to love it too. That's the basic principle of how fandom works. If you are defying it, you will never be able to become fan of anything.

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  9. And anon, I don't even think you are actually reading anything I'm saying. Thus, go away.

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  10. I guess I have to say that I am Anon 1 and every post after the first post was Anon 2 or someone else.

    All I really wanted to establish was that there were differences in the sentences and I do believe that these are very important differences. As different as “you’re” and “your.” I can understand if you don’t see it, not many people do. But I just wanted to make it clear that there was a significant difference. They are both opinions, yes, but it’s the way it is stated that matters.

    Yes, you’re right. There is no need to distinguish every sentence to figure out if it’s “fact” or opinion. Almost everything on a forum, a blog, etc. is opinion anyways and most people know that it’s merely an opinion; they aren’t going to analyze a whole sentence just to figure it out. And yes, there’s no need (usually) to add “I” because everyone assumes it is his thought. In sentence 1 and 2, we both know it is his opinion; that never changes.

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  11. ~Still Anon 1

    I don’t agree however that opinion is “nothing more than fact in [a] person’s own world.” Even in a person’s own mind, there is some degree of disagreement. Instead of saying “fact”, the correct term should be “personal belief.” Therefore, opinion is nothing more than a personal belief. Facts are the truth; they are irrefutable and undeniable. A person’s opinion will never be fact unless it is fact; plainly the truth. Comments like “this show is…great/good/bad/etc.” will always be an opinion; it will never be a fact.

    We know the first sentence sounds like an opinion. The second sentence however, sounds like a fact even though we know it’s an opinion.

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  12. ~Still Anon 1

    Let’s say for instance that a person’s favorite show was Evangelion. When Madoka came out, the person’s favorite show suddenly changed to Madoka. It is fact that he loved Evangelion and his love changed to Madoka. Let’s use the first sentence as an example. The person says: “Evangelion is the best show I ever saw.” The second sentence, he says “Evangelion is the best show ever.” That’s the complication of the second sentence. We can see that this “fact,” which I’m now calling “personal opinion,” changes after he watches Madoka. He’s said it was the best show ever without even realizing that Madoka was going to exist. I’m not saying the second sentence is wrong though but I think that’s why the person (“Mr. Retard” as you called him) wrote that post. I think that’s what Anon 2 was trying to get at when he wrote the narcissist comment. I don’t necessarily think that it makes the person look like a conceited narcissist (I for one would use the term elitist instead of narcissist); there has to be more than just saying something is the best ever in order to sound like that. If the person does however try to force his personal beliefs on you, then I would say would say that, yes, he is trying to be an elitist. Just to make it fair though, I say stuff like “this is the best ever!” all the time. A lot of people do. All I’m saying is that you wanted to know the difference between the two sentences, so I wanted to tell you the difference. That’s really all I’m trying to write about.

    If we are bringing religion into this, then religion is never fact. It is a belief. And you’re right. Fandom does exist because of beliefs like this. Fandom is like a religion. So people can believe what they want to believe. And no matter what anyone does, people will always fight for the show they believe in. But I do believe that that’s what’s so great about fandom. People fight and fight for their show, and even if they are completely wrong, they’ll still stick up for their show. Fans will be fans, no matter what.

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  13. @Anon 1: I wholeheartly agree with everything you say, especially the last bit. People should realise what it means to be fan of something and what it means to be having an opinion.

    Thank you for productive opinions. I actually learn more reading those.

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  14. Actually that last sentence's kinda off, there is no universal right or wrong on opinion, you can agree or disagree but that doesn't make you completely right/wrong. For all that tl;dr essay regarding one form of freedom of speech, you sure slip up, Anon 1.

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  15. ~Anon 1

    Which last sentence are you talking about?

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  16. ~Anon 1

    Sorry, I just realized it. I meant to say that even if they are completely wrong in other people's eyes (let's not get started on what is right or wrong because that, obviously, is opinion as well), they'll stick up for their show. And Of course there's no universal right or wrong on opinion. My mistake. You obviously get general meaning for what I was trying to say.

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  17. Both are statements of fact, just so you know.

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  18. Some people out there don't just state their opinions, they try to force their ideas on others.

    That's why, even when you know that you are just stating your opinion you should make sure you others know that.

    "x is the best thing ever", "x is better than y" etc - are statements that will start a flame war

    "i think x is the best thing I ever seen", "I think x is better than y" - are safe, and It shows that you respect the other forum members

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  19. >Putting 'I think' every time posting opinion is simply, dumb.

    I believe what is dumb is to think that it's not necessary to distinguish when you are expressing an opinion or a fact. How do you expect people to know what do you mean? Do you expect other people to be mind readers or something? Just because you find it bothersome doesn't mean it's not necessary.
    Heck, I remember this was one of the very first things I learned in school: to NEVER pass your opinion as a fact, for God's sake. And no, just because some in the fandom are irrational doesn't excuse them from writing correctly.

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